Identity Crisis (Learn from Spurs)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:42 pm
At this point in the season there is a mystery surrounding the warriors but majority of us have put certain pieces together and we can draw conclusions.

For me its a team that lacks identity, we know about our shooters ( Leading the NBA shooting 3's at .393%), but that is not enough of a weapon to carry a team to success. Moves me to my next point can the warriors diversify there offensive play calling, specifically a more inside outside game ( as mentioned before by others, and what I had hoped for from the beginning of the season).

I know Bogut is coming back from injury and is slowly getting back to shape and fluidity, also its been mentioned that he is not known for his offensive game, but the truth is the warriors are going to need to run some plays through him on the post eventually.

Also Lee, can he command double teams ? I know he has the motor to get rebounds, and he is capable of hitting 17 foot jumper but can he command a double team on the post, because it is badly needed. I know this is a 3 point shooting team but they need to have that inside outside game.

Moves me to my next point, watch the Spurs tonight, no team in the NBA moves the ball the way they do, and implement an inside/outside game like them.

Truth is if warriors need to maximize their talent, they need to go to that inside/outside game, run when they can, but they will need more ball movement and did I say slow the game down a bit.

As far as defense leave the zone alone.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:52 pm
I agree that's how they need to play. They have way more of an identity this year than they did in the last few. Run, play D, go to Lee and Landry inside, etc. They have the pieces for an identity, they have played with an identity before, it's just a matter of playing Warriors basketball. I think that falls on Mark Jackson to make sure the team doesn't get away from what has made them successful this season. It doesn't have to be one style though. They're a team that can run, pound it inside to their bigs, or shoot jumpers. I prefer they play inside out instead of outside in.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:23 am
The game was horrible to watch due to the disgusting tshirt uniforms. Looked like some rec-league garbage. Im not against change..just change when its for the worse. Just atrocious uniforms.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:54 am
rockyBeli wrote:I agree that's how they need to play. They have way more of an identity this year than they did in the last few. Run, play D, go to Lee and Landry inside, etc. They have the pieces for an identity, they have played with an identity before, it's just a matter of playing Warriors basketball. I think that falls on Mark Jackson to make sure the team doesn't get away from what has made them successful this season. It doesn't have to be one style though. They're a team that can run, pound it inside to their bigs, or shoot jumpers. I prefer they play inside out instead of outside in.


I hear what you are saying, and I think this involves having Bogut on the team more than anything, when he is on the team we seem to lose our ability to run, he is always trailing. Eventually the team will have to somewhat cater to Bogut in the sense he needs to be invloved on the offense. I was listening to the radio and it was mentioned that Bogut was four feet away from the basket and instead of shooting he passed the ball out. If a player is that deep in the post you take that shot, simple as that.

As far as inside outside game is concerned I have watched Barnes and he creates many mismatches because he of his size and strenghth, there are times he can easily overpower his man, he can be a canidate for a inside out game. Bogut when he is at full strength has to be, as well as Lee on certain occasions, although I see Lee more a ferocious attacker of the rim.

Overall like Rocky is saying, don't abandon running, do it at the right opportunity. All am saying is they need to add more of an inside out game, to space the floor for the shooters.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:56 am
Smitty wrote:The game was horrible to watch due to the disgusting tshirt uniforms. Looked like some rec-league garbage. Im not against change..just change when its for the worse. Just atrocious uniforms.


Lol those jerseys had sleaves, but we won right. I heard they are 30% lighter. They are also 30% not likeable. Warriors NBA trend setters.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:07 pm
Great post, WSU.

I've been calling for a greater emphasis on high-percentage options ever since the beginning of the 6-game losing streak. Not necessarily low block play-calling, mind you. Just higher-percentage than the infernal Klay/Steph curl and chuck. To my mind, David Lee should be the absolute center of this offense. Maybe he's not a #1 option every year, but this year the dude is absolutely unguardable in one-on-one coverage. I like the idea of clearing him a side and having either Klay or Steph feed him the ball - anywhere from the baseline to the free-throw-line extended - so he can go to work out of the face-up position. In single coverage, Lee should be good for 25 points on more than 50% shooting if he gets more looks than Curry, Klay, or Jack (which, based on the percentages from the floor, he SHOULD).

Force-feeding Lee will breed double-teams, make no mistake about it. And WCW is more than capable of finding the open man from nearly every situation, be it the triple-threat, off the dribble, out of the spin, even over his shoulder (like it was to Bogut a couple games back). David Lee is incredibly aware and more than capable of being the center of this offense. When teams overload his side, the perimeter will open up for Klay, Steph, Jack, and Barnes. Curry only needs an eyelash of room to get off something wet, HB and Thompson can use their pump fakes more effectively when the defense is crashing (rather than stationary), and Jack can penetrate all the easier with a defense out of position. Literally, everybody benefits from the ball going through Lee.

As far as the 5 spot goes... I'm sorry, Carl, but it's a janitorial position. I want shot-blocking, first and foremost. The Landry-Lee tandem is DEVASTATING when kept in check, but teams have learned to punch the ball inside when those two share minutes because neither of them will protect the rim. You neutralize this by pairing Lee with Ezeli/Biedrins and Landry with Bogut (since Bogut is your best passing center and Landry is something of a black hole). I'm not saying you abandon the Lee-Landry tandem, since it works statistically, but I'd rather see them play 10-15 minutes beside each other instead of 25. We need offensive glass from our 5, along with shot-blocking and hard fouls.

Defensively, I say don't abandon the zone, but reserve it for a 3rd quarter change-up (the way they were earlier in the season when they were locking squads up). Some dudes just flat out suffer in the zone; if Bogut can't cover a close-out, you can't run it when he's on the floor. Curry, Thompson, Biedrins, and Barnes all also seem to be confused by where they need to be in a zone setting. Reserve the zone for your B-Squad defensive team; Green, Jack, Ezeli, and Landry are all good zone players. Instead of 60% man-40% zone, cut the zone back (like you're cutting the Lee-Landry tandem back). If something's your secret weapon, it works 100 times better than when you overuse it and give teams a chance to adjust. Zones should be kept for when you're getting torn up inside and not simply when your starters are tired and you don't wanna take them out.

In conclusion:

1, more looks for Lee. Get him more attempts than Steph, Klay, and Jack
2, the shooters work off the bigs, not the other way around
3, keep your change-ups fresh by not overusing them (ie, the zone defense and Landry-Lee)
4, Bazemore, Green, and Ezeli need more tick than simply the last minute of quarters
5, your starting bigs are GREAT passers. Run the offense through them and let the guards fire away

I think that blue-print looks a lot more like Memphis than San Antonio... and I'm okay with that, cause we don't have a Duncan or free-throw whores like Ginobli/Parker.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:29 am
Nice follow up 32, an I am in general agreement with all the points. Especially the main point, having the shooters work off the Bigs. We already shoot lights out with Curry and Thompson, if we can get the double on Lee, it will only open the perimeter more. I can say we are a guard dominated team with Lee cleaning up on the boards, and getting some, Iso, but we do infact need more Lee Isos, like you said force feed the guy, don't see anything bad coming from that.

Also would like to utilize more of Barnes, I know he has been struggling lately but he needs more touches. I can see him working in the blocks as well, overpowering his opponent, and dishing out when need be.

And am all for limiting the Lee/Landry combo, point in case against the Pacers, Landry on Hibbert ? Lee on Hibbert, so the pacers just kept dropping the ball down there for the mis-match, not a good look.

As far as the zone, don't mind using it in limited cases as you mention, 10% is a fair enough. Its just when they play it majority of the game and its obvioulsy not working ex: Houstoun game. They look lost and give too much space on the perimeter for the opponents.

For future success we need to start playing with struture. And to add am all for running, thats a giving, any chance they can run do it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:56 pm
Ahh a year later and look at the Spurs, to the obvious basketball fan who studies the game you noticed something special about the Spurs, they are so unselfish and move the ball better than any one else in the league. Everyone on their roster is capable of scoring and particular players can put the team on their back when needed (on that team I count 4). Tim doesn't always command the double team but he passes so well out the post. How silly did the heat look out there. And on the defensive end everyone was active, moving, focused.

I can only hope the Warriors took some notes, instead of the excessive dribbling they need to move the ball better, and on the defensive end be more focused and alert. I think the roster will improve with the growth of Green and Klay but will take a much larger leap with Love. One thing we learned about the Spurs was how unselfish they were and how stupid they made the former champs and hyped big 3 look
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:49 am
What Kerr needs to do with the team is have the substituting of the players differently, like not subbing out four players at the same time. Offensively, the isos MJack run were stupid, totally ineffectual compared to the pick and roll. Giving Lee the ball inside or Love if he is traded for, is a good option and working inside out.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:16 pm
32 wrote:Great post, WSU.

I've been calling for a greater emphasis on high-percentage options ever since the beginning of the 6-game losing streak. Not necessarily low block play-calling, mind you. Just higher-percentage than the infernal Klay/Steph curl and chuck. To my mind, David Lee should be the absolute center of this offense. Maybe he's not a #1 option every year, but this year the dude is absolutely unguardable in one-on-one coverage. I like the idea of clearing him a side and having either Klay or Steph feed him the ball - anywhere from the baseline to the free-throw-line extended - so he can go to work out of the face-up position. In single coverage, Lee should be good for 25 points on more than 50% shooting if he gets more looks than Curry, Klay, or Jack (which, based on the percentages from the floor, he SHOULD).

Force-feeding Lee will breed double-teams, make no mistake about it. And WCW is more than capable of finding the open man from nearly every situation, be it the triple-threat, off the dribble, out of the spin, even over his shoulder (like it was to Bogut a couple games back). David Lee is incredibly aware and more than capable of being the center of this offense. When teams overload his side, the perimeter will open up for Klay, Steph, Jack, and Barnes. Curry only needs an eyelash of room to get off something wet, HB and Thompson can use their pump fakes more effectively when the defense is crashing (rather than stationary), and Jack can penetrate all the easier with a defense out of position. Literally, everybody benefits from the ball going through Lee.

As far as the 5 spot goes... I'm sorry, Carl, but it's a janitorial position. I want shot-blocking, first and foremost. The Landry-Lee tandem is DEVASTATING when kept in check, but teams have learned to punch the ball inside when those two share minutes because neither of them will protect the rim. You neutralize this by pairing Lee with Ezeli/Biedrins and Landry with Bogut (since Bogut is your best passing center and Landry is something of a black hole). I'm not saying you abandon the Lee-Landry tandem, since it works statistically, but I'd rather see them play 10-15 minutes beside each other instead of 25. We need offensive glass from our 5, along with shot-blocking and hard fouls.

Defensively, I say don't abandon the zone, but reserve it for a 3rd quarter change-up (the way they were earlier in the season when they were locking squads up). Some dudes just flat out suffer in the zone; if Bogut can't cover a close-out, you can't run it when he's on the floor. Curry, Thompson, Biedrins, and Barnes all also seem to be confused by where they need to be in a zone setting. Reserve the zone for your B-Squad defensive team; Green, Jack, Ezeli, and Landry are all good zone players. Instead of 60% man-40% zone, cut the zone back (like you're cutting the Lee-Landry tandem back). If something's your secret weapon, it works 100 times better than when you overuse it and give teams a chance to adjust. Zones should be kept for when you're getting torn up inside and not simply when your starters are tired and you don't wanna take them out.

In conclusion:

1, more looks for Lee. Get him more attempts than Steph, Klay, and Jack
2, the shooters work off the bigs, not the other way around
3, keep your change-ups fresh by not overusing them (ie, the zone defense and Landry-Lee)
4, Bazemore, Green, and Ezeli need more tick than simply the last minute of quarters
5, your starting bigs are GREAT passers. Run the offense through them and let the guards fire away

I think that blue-print looks a lot more like Memphis than San Antonio... and I'm okay with that, cause we don't have a Duncan or free-throw whores like Ginobli/Parker.


Going all the way back, I like what you wrote, 32 we see the light as many others do. I still prefer the rapid ball movement of the Spurs, than compared to the Griz who have two legit post players. Bogut as we have seen here has not been used much in the post, making the PF position and Lee the only post position. But do we have the outside shooters hell yes, the best in-fact, so why don't we provide them more space, although we know Curry don't need much room to get one off.

They key is more ball movement, and sharing the ball, its crazy Kawhi Leonard was the Final M.V.P, with all the stars he came through, shout out to him, but even more so with how unselfish the Spurs are, you have your stars but in your starting five and even bench any player can go off giving the chance and giving how well the floor is spread.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:21 pm
migya wrote:What Kerr needs to do with the team is have the substituting of the players differently, like not subbing out four players at the same time. Offensively, the isos MJack run were stupid, totally ineffectual compared to the pick and roll. Giving Lee the ball inside or Love if he is traded for, is a good option and working inside out.


True true, cant agree more. Also need a capable roster, if you look at the Spurs any player on the floor is capable of scoring, everyone, its crazy this also includes bench players, Diaw, Danny Green, Patty Mills, Belleneli, and of course all their starters.

To counter the warriors need more creators, in the sense of creating their own shot, creating for others, or simply just being a capable passer, more speed, a more capable bench, and players with high basketball IQ
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:18 pm
warriorsstepup wrote:
migya wrote:What Kerr needs to do with the team is have the substituting of the players differently, like not subbing out four players at the same time. Offensively, the isos MJack run were stupid, totally ineffectual compared to the pick and roll. Giving Lee the ball inside or Love if he is traded for, is a good option and working inside out.


True true, cant agree more. Also need a capable roster, if you look at the Spurs any player on the floor is capable of scoring, everyone, its crazy this also includes bench players, Diaw, Danny Green, Patty Mills, Belleneli, and of course all their starters.

To counter the warriors need more creators, in the sense of creating their own shot, creating for others, or simply just being a capable passer, more speed, a more capable bench, and players with high basketball IQ



The Spurs don't have good players as much as they've got a great system, lead by what I consider the greatest tactian coach ever, Popovich. They Spurs players became good with that system and when you look at the most clear example, Bellineli, he was ineffectual on the other teams he was on during his career and now is effective. Unlikely we'll have that system but as long as Kerr and his assistants can create a good team game, taking into account each players individual ability, the team will win alot.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:32 pm
migya wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
migya wrote:What Kerr needs to do with the team is have the substituting of the players differently, like not subbing out four players at the same time. Offensively, the isos MJack run were stupid, totally ineffectual compared to the pick and roll. Giving Lee the ball inside or Love if he is traded for, is a good option and working inside out.


True true, cant agree more. Also need a capable roster, if you look at the Spurs any player on the floor is capable of scoring, everyone, its crazy this also includes bench players, Diaw, Danny Green, Patty Mills, Belleneli, and of course all their starters.

To counter the warriors need more creators, in the sense of creating their own shot, creating for others, or simply just being a capable passer, more speed, a more capable bench, and players with high basketball IQ



The Spurs don't have good players as much as they've got a great system, lead by what I consider the greatest tactian coach ever, Popovich. They Spurs players became good with that system and when you look at the most clear example, Bellineli, he was ineffectual on the other teams he was on during his career and now is effective. Unlikely we'll have that system but as long as Kerr and his assistants can create a good team game, taking into account each players individual ability, the team will win alot.


I think its more of the overall fit, as well as the system, but more so the type of players that blend with your team. We had Jarrett Jack and Landry, in that case it was more of a fit, than a system. They both were excellent offensively and fit in well with our roster. We missed them on our bench this year, especially Jarrett Jack
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:56 pm
warriorsstepup wrote:
migya wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
migya wrote:What Kerr needs to do with the team is have the substituting of the players differently, like not subbing out four players at the same time. Offensively, the isos MJack run were stupid, totally ineffectual compared to the pick and roll. Giving Lee the ball inside or Love if he is traded for, is a good option and working inside out.


True true, cant agree more. Also need a capable roster, if you look at the Spurs any player on the floor is capable of scoring, everyone, its crazy this also includes bench players, Diaw, Danny Green, Patty Mills, Belleneli, and of course all their starters.

To counter the warriors need more creators, in the sense of creating their own shot, creating for others, or simply just being a capable passer, more speed, a more capable bench, and players with high basketball IQ



The Spurs don't have good players as much as they've got a great system, lead by what I consider the greatest tactian coach ever, Popovich. They Spurs players became good with that system and when you look at the most clear example, Bellineli, he was ineffectual on the other teams he was on during his career and now is effective. Unlikely we'll have that system but as long as Kerr and his assistants can create a good team game, taking into account each players individual ability, the team will win alot.


I think its more of the overall fit, as well as the system, but more so the type of players that blend with your team. We had Jarrett Jack and Landry, in that case it was more of a fit, than a system. They both were excellent offensively and fit in well with our roster. We missed them on our bench this year, especially Jarrett Jack



I think people overvalued Landry and Jack. The team won more last season and maybe most will say it was the addition of Iguodala, but I think having either Landry or Jack last season, especially Jack, would have taken away from the team game. Both were very individual players, looking for there's rather than anyone else's.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:09 pm
You are saying the system than the players, if that is the case then if we trade our bench for the Spurs, the Spurs have the same result, I think not, those players are targeted. You find certain qualities in players that create a team.

As far as Landry and Jack they produce for us, it was money they made them leave. Our bench was a major issue this year and needs to be addressed, especially back up point-guard play.
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