San Franciso 49ers thread

Talk about any other sports here.

Moderators: Mr. Crackerz, JREED, Guybrush, hobbes

User avatar
Moderator
Posts: 2425
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 4:21 pm
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Poster Credit: 34
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:23 am
We shall see. :-)
Image
Image
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 5868
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Brisbane
Poster Credit: 31
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:33 pm
I am very intrigued about Niners thoughts on Kaep..

Every fantasy expert says Kaep is a must start.. However there's a difference between Smith (real life QB) & Kaepernick (fantasy QB)

You guys will tread water with Kaep... But if he continues to look the goods, any thoughts of him as the guy of the future.
User avatar
Moderator
Posts: 2425
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 4:21 pm
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Poster Credit: 34
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:30 pm
I can't see I'm that impressed with the guy. He had some good throws for some nice yards, but he sucked for the first part of the game, and after that had quite a few 3 and outs. Failed to see wide open Williams, which would have been a TD pass...too many mistakes. Alex kicked their asses after that first horrible drive, 7 of 8 for 72 yards and a TD, with concussion. Definitely much better performance than Kaep. Kaep is a good backup, just because of his running, and that's about it so far. I wouldn't feel relaxed next Monday if I knew Kaep will start.
Image
Image
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 5868
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Brisbane
Poster Credit: 31
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:49 pm
Guybrush.

Is Kaepernick warming to you? I kind of wanna do my "I told you so" dance But I won't

Kind of happy that I was right. This was Al Davis guy that he wanted to QB his team. But Harbaugh moved up in the 2nd round and selected Kaepernick and we had to settle with a easily fillable position in LG/C with Wiz Jr
User avatar
Moderator
Posts: 2425
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 4:21 pm
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Poster Credit: 34
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:23 am
I'm actually still confused about it. Far from being happy. Yeah, we won...but what were we doing with Alex at the QB? What was wrong with QB who is first in league in completion percentage, 3rd in pass rating, etc?

Kaepernick supposed to be more dynamic, with deep ball that is going to be a game changer...and yet, last night, the longest throw he made was about 20 yard pass to Walker. Other big gains were short passes that Manningham and Walker made a big play.

Further, he played last week good defense in Bears, but that defense didn't have O from offense then, and it was easy to get them tired, when they are staying all day on the field. And still, he had quite a few non progressing drives. Last night, we played the worst defense in the league, and had it not been for our D, that stopped Brees and took 2 to the house, we would have lost, I'm sure of that. So, that "Golden Boy" as media is making him to be, did nothing more than what Smith was doing (I would argue that Smith is better still, cause guy had two incomplete passes in his last two games, and he played with a concussion, and scored a TD). Offense had two good drives last night, other was defense. He won't get that every week. And titles like that are doing 49ers no favors, actually, the opposite. 49ers weren't the losing team, in a need of a savior, and everything is being made like that is the case, quite forcefully. Teams will gameplan for Kaep, and I can't see him being the game changer. His reading of defense didn't make me feel comfortable, he looks (and stares) in his first option, and if it's not there, he looks to run. Good defenses will stop that. And he managed to throw one INT staring like that.

So, it wasn't him who won the game, it was the D. If the D didn't step up, Niners would got themselves a loss, for no good reason, but just for the sake of letting kid play, cause he had one good game, against a team that fell apart.

What is impressive in a game where you throw for 1 TD and 1 INT? Or in pass rating of 90, which is lower than Alex's average...or actually, anything else that he did? If Alex played game like that, it would have been said that he was a game manager, and if it was not for the defense, that Niners would lose. And that INT would be mentioned quite a lot. Oh, and remember that Kaep got saved by Moss on that pass to endzone, which would have been a pick 6, if Moss didn't toss Jenkins to the ground.

So, no, I'm not thrilled, I just feel bad for Alex, who did nothing wrong to lose his job. I would never want to lose my job the way he did. It is very unprofessional, the way it was made...you switch QBs when they are not delivering, or when you are losing...which wasn't the case here. I'm afraid it will come back to bite Harbaugh and his inflated ego on his ass. He was good, but I'm starting to question some decisions he made. Just to name a few, so it doesn't look like it's because of Smith: giving money to Jacobs, Ginn...and not to Costanzo, and now our ST is suffering, and Jacobs didn't play until last night. Ginn was benched. Then you have A.J. Jenkins, and LaMichael James who haven't seen the field, and they were high picks. And this QB experiment might tear the locker room...and all that for nothing.

For now, we are winning still, and that's good. But I'm far from impressed by the way things are handled. Too many players are starting to speak of their unhappiness, and then denying it, when asked about it. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Image
Image
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 5868
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Brisbane
Poster Credit: 31
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:37 am
Yeah there's no questioning the San Francisco D played a major part in that win.

But I don't know if you watched the gme, but the broadcasters made mentioned that Kaep was responsible for the longest drive of this season. 91 yards and multiple clock eating minutes.

I'd say Alex Smith is a poor man's Kaep. He just can't make the throws that Kaep can and is a little slower then CK. Smith still a very servicable QB who has now replaced CK as the best backup in the league.
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 5868
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Brisbane
Poster Credit: 31
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:46 am
Guybrush wrote:
What is impressive in a game where you throw for 1 TD and 1 INT? Or in pass rating of 90, which is lower than Alex's average...or actually, anything else that he did? If Alex played game like that, it would have been said that he was a game manager, and if it was not for the defense, that Niners would lose. And that INT would be mentioned quite a lot. Oh, and remember that Kaep got saved by Moss on that pass to endzone, which would have been a pick 6, if Moss didn't toss Jenkins to the ground.
.


Man QB Rating is one of the most overrated stats when you are asked to judge a rookie/sophamore.

That Interception he had, It was a bonehead move. The snap got muffed and he should of tossed it to the sidelines. Jim Harbaugh is a great QB Coach, He will ingrain into Kaeps mind not to make that throw.

Anyways, Kaep is by far further down the development chain in year 2 then Smith is (& did Smith not start from day 1?)

I am excited for where Kaep can take this team, Do you want a Trent Dilfer type QB in Alex Smith who manages a Offense on the back of a bonafide Defense, Or do you want the 6 foot 6 athlete in the mould of Aaron Rodgers who can kill a team with his feet or his arm?
User avatar
Moderator
Posts: 2425
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 4:21 pm
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Poster Credit: 34
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:17 am
I watched the game. That eating minutes thing could off came to bite them on their ass, if Saints played a bit better on offense, or 49ers D played like it did prior to this match.

I don't see actually one thing, aside from that big arm thing, where is Kaep better than Smith. He is a bit faster, which is not so drastic. Comparing Smith to Dilfer is something that analysts who don't watch the games tend to say. Smith is a far better athlete than Dilfer was, ans he is better than people give him credit for. That big play ability you talk about was nowhere to be seen last night. The biggest play came off the 3-5 yard pass to Manningham. He did absolutely nothing that would make me think, WOW! Or that Alex couldn't do it. It was the same gameplay as for Smith, short passes, to intermediate ones. If it was Smith you would say that it was dink and dunk game. I remember last season even where you would say after Smith had a similar game to this one, that he is not a good QB, or a starting one. I don't see where are all the double standards coming from.

Alex is not the best backup, Alex was the top 3 QB in the league when he got benched. If you don't look just at the numbers of yards. That says more than anything else. You bench a guy that took you to the conference finals for the first time after '98, the guy who was playing pretty damn good football this season, for no good reason. I'm not buying that thing about the injury.
That leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. I reckon that most of the guys might think now that they can be easily replaced if they get injured for a while, or even for no reason. That's how you start ruining your locker room atmosphere.

And for the record, it's plain lame to compare Smith's rookie season, to Kaep's situation now. Smith came into the league when the 49ers were the worst team, by far. And he had pathetic OL, and no playmakers. I would even say that Rodgers would be in the same situation as Smith is now, if he was the 1st pick then. He played through 3rd degree shoulder separation that he earned playing for this team, he never said no...and this is our thanks to him. **** that...I'm ashamed by the way he was treated, he definitely didn't deserve this BS, after all he did this and last year.
Image
Image
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 1129
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:53 pm
Poster Credit: 26
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:17 pm
It is not about if Smith did something wrong. Kaep was clearly targeted to be the future QB when he got drafted. I like Smith, but I don't feel sorry for him. He was playing well, but from watching the games he was too conservative at times. It is good when you have the lead, but when you don't, it's hard to win. I think Kaep is the clear choice for the future, and that doesn't mean Smith was disrespected. He is still a member of the team and they are handling his situation with class in my opinion. They haven't thrown him under the buss. They still support him verbally, but reality is that Kaep has played better in situations where they need to be aggressive.

I don't know why there is so much fuss about Smith coming off the bench. He is still an intergral part of the team and is getting paid handsomely for it.
"Hard Work Beats Talent, When Talent Doesn't Work Hard"
Image

Image : 2010 - 2011
User avatar
Moderator
Posts: 2425
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 4:21 pm
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Poster Credit: 34
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:33 am
I don't buy that...it's nonsense to me. You offered him a new three year deal to be the starter, if you didn't want him to be that, why sign him at all, if you believe Kaep is ready.

And to be honest, I don't see what was that aggressive thing that Kaep was doing. The playcalling was as conservative as it was was Smith, and he played exactly as Smith did. Not a single different thing, then his willingness to run after checking the first target.

If you check the stats, you would see that he is even in the small game sample still worse than Alex. So I don't get where this impression of Kaep is coming from. Everything is being blown out of proportion by the media, and people are buying it. And the reality is something completely different. Kaep did not outplay Alex, and we didn't see anything that would guarantee that he is better, now or in the future. I gave the reasons for why he was good, Bears didn't have offense and their defense was on the field all game, and Saints' offense is the worst in the league...and he still didn't do anything spectacular. The best game of the year by our D gave us the win...and all the talk in the media is about Kaep. Not fair to those guys on D that worked their butts off all game. I'm quite sure that nobody wouldn't mention Smith if he played that game and had those stats. Man, media and marketing can do wonders. Remember all those hypes about Tebow, Sanchez...before them Leinart (don't even wanna mention JMR, cause it's too painful for some here). :)

And he is being thrown under the bus, he signed to be the starter...I'm quite sure that a guy like Alex isn't playing just for the money. He took less before to play for the 49ers. He wanted to finish something that he started, the team that he turned around (with HC), and he gave us a win against the Saints last year in the PO, when Brees actually had a great game, unlike last Sunday. We were fumble away from the Superbowl. If that's not indication that Smith can take us there, I don't know what is. Definitely it's more of a sure thing to bet on a guy who didn't even play 5 games, let alone a PO game, take you to the Superbowl. Yeah...c'mon man.
Image
Image
User avatar
Moderator
Posts: 2570
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Eureka, CA - Humboldt
Poster Credit: 19
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:02 pm
First off, none of it matters now because there is no going back at this point. I would have liked to see Alex get the start against the Saints and Harbaugh call an aggressive game plan, and we finally see if he has it in him. But, none of that matters anymore because I think you have to stick with Kaep at this point and release Alex (maybe get a 5th rounder for him?) after the season.

Guybrush wrote:I don't buy that...it's nonsense to me. You offered him a new three year deal to be the starter, if you didn't want him to be that, why sign him at all, if you believe Kaep is ready.

And to be honest, I don't see what was that aggressive thing that Kaep was doing. The playcalling was as conservative as it was was Smith, and he played exactly as Smith did. Not a single different thing, then his willingness to run after checking the first target.

If you check the stats, you would see that he is even in the small game sample still worse than Alex. So I don't get where this impression of Kaep is coming from. Everything is being blown out of proportion by the media, and people are buying it. And the reality is something completely different. Kaep did not outplay Alex, and we didn't see anything that would guarantee that he is better, now or in the future. I gave the reasons for why he was good, Bears didn't have offense and their defense was on the field all game, and Saints' offense is the worst in the league...and he still didn't do anything spectacular. The best game of the year by our D gave us the win...and all the talk in the media is about Kaep. Not fair to those guys on D that worked their butts off all game. I'm quite sure that nobody wouldn't mention Smith if he played that game and had those stats. Man, media and marketing can do wonders. Remember all those hypes about Tebow, Sanchez...before them Leinart (don't even wanna mention JMR, cause it's too painful for some here). :)

And he is being thrown under the bus, he signed to be the starter...I'm quite sure that a guy like Alex isn't playing just for the money. He took less before to play for the 49ers. He wanted to finish something that he started, the team that he turned around (with HC), and he gave us a win against the Saints last year in the PO, when Brees actually had a great game, unlike last Sunday. We were fumble away from the Superbowl. If that's not indication that Smith can take us there, I don't know what is. Definitely it's more of a sure thing to bet on a guy who didn't even play 5 games, let alone a PO game, take you to the Superbowl. Yeah...c'mon man.


Guy, I think the problem with your argument here is having the assumption that the FO and coaching staff felt like Kaep was ready. I know you follow the 9ers as close as I do, so I'm sure you've heard a lot of the dialog about how the 9ers weren't pleased with Kaep's lack of progression. Harbaugh seemed unhappy about Kaep's remarks about being the season-opener starter.

Let's also keep in mind that the 9er's haven't been sold on Alex once since that NFC Championship game ended and that the pursuit of Peyton was very real and came very close to happening, regardless of what Harbaugh says.

I agree with you that Alex shouldn't have been bench so soon and that he hasn't done anything to lose his job. I am an Alex supporter, but with that said, I think our ceiling is higher with Kaep. I don't believe that because of the popular belief that he'll get the ball down field more than Alex due to arm strength or better long-range accuracy. I believe Kaep is the better option because of his ability to escape pressure and that ability gives the receivers more time to get open and plays more time to develop.

You had to of been impressed with the way he eluded pass rushers in the Bears and Saints games. Kaep was only sack twice during the Bears game, despite being under pressure the entire game and I can recall at least 3 plays where he escaped the sack where Alex would have gone down. The Saints game was even more impressive. They threw the kitchen sink at him thinking that they'd rattle his cage - didn't happen. You know how many times he was sack in that game? Zero. Alex would have given up at least 3-4 sacks. Let's face it, our oline is good, but it isn't the best at protecting the QB - I don't know where all of these pundits getting that the 9ers have the best oline in the league from, because it sure doesn't look that way when it comes to pass protection. Run game? Yes, I don't think it's even a question.

For better or for worse, Kaep is our guy. Yes Alex did not lose that NFC Championship game, but that is not what is in question here and that argument is getting really old really fast. What I question is, if we had Kaep in that game playing like he is now, do we give up the 3 sack we surrendered to that amazing pass rush? Does Kaep get us a couple of extra 1st downs so it never comes down to our backup return man muffing and fumbling kicks?
User avatar
Moderator
Posts: 2425
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 4:21 pm
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Poster Credit: 34
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:17 pm
I see that point, and that is the only thing I would say he is better at. Though, it's a small sample, I don't think he will maintain that for a long time. Bears' defense was getting tired, so they couldn't press him that much, and Saints really are bad D. I think he had luck in his first two games...we shall see in the future. Also, teams didn't know for who to prepare, they will now, and they will exploit Kaeps shortcomings, and he has quite a few. So, we still don't know ish about Kaep, but we hang everything on him.

And even if Alex took more sacks, we still managed to win those games, didn't we? He had other ways to make things happen, it's not just running away from the pressure that makes you a QB. Alex is far more intelligent, and I think we will just need to wait and see how Kaep will read defenses when they start closing down on him, and he can't find a place to run.

All I'm saying is that we didn't look bad with Alex, and we didn't need to pull the trigger this soon, and for no reason. Kaep didn't even play in the POs. You don't fix what's not broken. Now you're gonna have players divided in the locker room, and also, they will start asking themselves if they are gonna lose their roster spot if they get injured, or if they are even going to play as hard as they did, cause of the fear of getting injured.

A lot of questions is being raised, and that single answer we got, I'm not sure it's an answer based on that sample...two games.

We shall see...
Image
Image
User avatar
Moderator
Posts: 2570
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Eureka, CA - Humboldt
Poster Credit: 19
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:30 pm
I've heard that the locker room has been divided all season as some players felt that Kaep was our better option. I'm not buying the divided locker room as a factor. There is no doubt that Alex is a smart guy, and most likely smarter than most NFL players - he got a 40/50 on the Wonderlic, which is good - Kaep got a 38 though... But there is so much more to playing QB in the NFL - Farve was smoke by Alex on the Wonderlic, and I don't think anyone is arguing that Farve is all that bright (see "Farve junk mail", lol), but you'd be insane to not take Farve over Alex.

I see your point and I'm not saying that I disagree, but there is no turning back now. I think it's far better that all of this happens now, with several week for Kaep to get out any jitters that a young QB may have, instead of Alex getting hurt or losing favor closer to (or in) the post season. We are fortunate to have two good options under center and if Kaep is just a little better than Alex (or even just as good), we have two good QBs with starts under their belts in case of injury.

The 9ers probably have the best QB situation in the league, because if one goes down, we don't lose much.
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13536
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 pm
If Alex Smith's feelings are hurt, he can go cry into the $49.5 million they paid him from 2005 to 2010. 6 years where he accomplished absolutely nothing and got paid like the franchise. If he'd held the job down for the most part during his first 8 years in the league, would there even be a QB controversy? Would the Niners have drafted Kaep if Alex was playing like the checks he was cashing?

Seriously. I realize he had an emotional resurgence last year - including some ra-ra playoff moments, he's been a different QB under Harbaugh, and he's an overall likable/nice guy. But whatever happened to the expectations of the #1 overall pick? Why isn't anybody concerned that he might revert back to the nutless squirt gun he was before Harbaugh and Roman made him look like an NFL quarterback? Colin Kaepernick is a greenhorn rookie; he had less than 10 snaps outside the Wildcat before Alex got hurt. And, already, he's outperforming Alex Smith while adjusting to a starting role midseason after being fully groomed for backup duty. If Kaep had training camp and all the 1st string practice that Alex had, this wouldn't even be a discussion. It's not just about the arm; it's about big plays in general. Kaep is green, sure, but hes got the wheels, hes got the cannon, he's got the balls, and by god he's got the swag. Compare Alex Smith's first 2 seasons to Colin Kaepernick in 3 games.

I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for Alex Smith or the mistaken notion that you automatically keep your starting spot when you return from injury. The Niners were already an A+ defensive team. Kaep opens up the play book and gives them the potential to be an A on offense as well... Something Smith just doesn't have in him.
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image
User avatar
Moderator
Posts: 2425
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 4:21 pm
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Poster Credit: 34
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:06 pm
Whoa...hit the breaks a bit. :)

So, now you're going to place the blame on Alex for earning as much money as he did? Really? :) Bradford is in the same situation, yet the Rams are not treating him like Alex was for all of his career. You are just using the numbers to put in the perspective that you are comfortable with, yet the truth is far away from that black and white thing, as you present it to be.

1. Alex didn't play all of those 8 years. His first few seasons were with one of the worst teams I have ever seen in the NFL, non existent O line, no playmakers, terrible coaches...etc. Speaking of terrible coaches, he had one that called him out for not being tough enough and wanted him to play inured, so when he did play, with 3rd degree shoulder separation (thanks to that great team he had, like Kaep does now, right?) he was being dissed for his bad game. Wow, real classy of Nolan.
Than you have a complete moron when it comes to offensive side of the game in Singletary, and I don't even wanna go in that plethora of O coordinators and how bad they were, let alone the fact that they changed more than we change underwear.

2. Put Rodgers in Smith's situation when he entered the league, and I'm sure the situation wouldn't be much different. A lot of things in professional sports depend on timing, and whether you will let the kid play at the right moment is one of those timing things. Heck, Peyton Manning would have struggled in that team 49ers had in 2005.

3. And, like I said, I don't know what you guys saw in Kaep in those game he played, which is incredibly small sample, but he didn't outplay Smith. It's not just my theory or such, just check the stats. Check how many long balls he through. He has advantages over Smith, but also he has things in which he lacks. Smith in more games has better numbers than Kaep in two, and yet, I need to be convinced that he was lights out. Why? How? By defense scoring two TDs and giving us the win over Saints? Take that Brooks' pick 6 away, and we start the second half really differently. Kaep was scared of not making a mistake after that pick, you could see that, and it was weight off his shoulders when they didn't capitalize on that. And that penalty Moss made on Jenkins would have been a pick 6. I don't know why, but for some reason people are neglecting all of the bad things, and there have been a lot. The point is, had the defense not scored twice, we would have lost. The biggest negative about Smith was that he couldn't outgun high scoring teams like the Saints, and he did, in the POs, and now, it's all fine when Kaep didn't do that, but the defense did score twice to win us this one? That's textbook double standards.

It's not about sympathy, it's about treating someone the way he deserves. Alex didn't play bad, if he did, and Kaep won us the games, sure, fine, no need to feel bad for Alex, he had more than one shot. But now, that he is doing all that was expected of him when he was drafted, after all he's been through with this team, and finally got back on track...it's just lame. And I'm sure players also feel that, some of them, at least.

And you just can't compare Alex's first season, and Kaep's now, you just can't. You sanity should tell you that.

We shall see about Kaep, I don't wish him bad, he's a good kid, nothing of this is his fault, he is just taking advantage of the situation. But, many were jumping on Hill's, O'Sullivan's nuts after the first few games, just for the sake of not watching Alex play, and were so blind to their mistakes, that it needed so much time to realize how wrong they were, I'm just saying that it could easily happen with Kaep...2 games is noting, and those 2 were not nearly as close to impressive as people and media are making it to be. See how many games like that, and how many better games than those Alex had this and the last season.

In the end, we can agree that we don't agree. I don't think Kaep is better than Alex, especially not after few not so great games. And I'm just being cautious, cause he might easily fall, when teams prepare for him. I just don't jump that easily on bandwaggon I guess. Anyway, I will eat crow if I'm wrong. But take notice that I didn't say Kaep is bad, I just said that he is overrated just by playing to a bit over standard games, and that I'm not sold on him. :)
Image
Image
PreviousNext

Return to Sports Board

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest