Game Thread: Warriors @ Phoenix Suns 2012-10-31

Talk about the upcoming Warriors game here

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:19 am
martin wrote:
32 wrote:
martin wrote:The great Bob Fuckgerald always said something along these lines during last season: "how often will the warriors (or this and that player) shoot so bad?". I don't buy these kind of arguments.
Yes they will shoot better, but phoenix shot as bad as we did. I saw two bad offensive teams out there.

Fuckgerald.... Nice.

But poor puns aside, if you don't believe David Lee and Steph Curry are going to shoot a great deal better than they did tonight, you may as well stop watching now. Those are our two biggest shot-takers and they both absolutely blew tonight. Curry missed all 6 of his three's and shot 14%. Lee (a career 50% shooter) shot 12%. If you don't believe the Warriors are going to shoot drastically better on most nights, or that they have the personnel to be a dangerous offensive team, pull a JSW and just become a Pistons fan now. Arguing that the offense is in trouble because the two guys taking the most shots were off lacks foresight. You gotta be more patient bro.

martin wrote:Did you see any pick 'n' roll? Yes, I thought the same.

Good, then we both saw pick-and-rolls. Problem is, Lee couldn't finish them.

We also saw punch isolation from Landry and high-post options for Bogut. The front court will be a huge part of this team. Again, be patient.

martin wrote:Our starting five has ways to go to be a consistent, coherent, not eye killing team on the court. Let the rosy teddy bear drown for a moment.

4-for-30. That's what our offensive duo put up tonight. Hell, even Thompson was 2-for-9 inside the arc. Phoenix played aggressive defense and you gotta give them credit for bothering our shooters. Won't happen every night.

I realize it was ugly to watch at times, but Barnes flashed athleticism that a few people were concerned about and, for Chrissakes, Bogut was in uniform - which is the best news of the year so far. The bench needs no explanation.

martin wrote:Besides Bogut I saw no one with any kind of a balls there.

Then you tuned out when Ezeli was in the game. He drew an off-the-ball foul on Gortat after literally LIFTING him with one arm and getting inside position for a dunk. When the whistle blew, Gortat looked at his bench with a total, "What do you want me to do to stop this monster??" look. 3 steals, 5 boards.

You also must have missed Landry dominating the paint inside: 7-for-9, 6 boards, 3 free throws, +13 on the night. Fitz often referred to the low block as "Landry's office". You'll understand why within 2 weeks of the season. He's instant inside offense off the bench. Nobody on Phoenix had any hope of slowing him down.

martin wrote:The bench is another thing. Bench won us a game big time. That is depth, and that is FO job done well.

You can say that again.

The Big 3 (Landry, Rush, and Jack) accounted for 41 points (16-for-25), 10 rebounds, 10 assists, 2 steals, and all left with positive plus-minus ratings: +13, +3, and +7 respectively.


just a quick recap, i didn't say curry and lee will be shooting that bad. i said the team (starting unit) lacked open shots, they were not consistently created - both lee and curry are finesse players, for them to operate at high efficiency they need space. i don't like lee on iso's, especially against forwards. these results in bad shots. monta like.
the thing about curry that gets me worried, and that might be conjecture, but could it be that his ankle is bothering him, his shot looked ugly and his movement not so crisp, maybe it's conditioning.
yes, our team should be capable of great offense, but it remains to be seen if jackson can bring it out of them, it looks like first team is on a strong leash, while second team is allowed to improvise more. and for the second year under jackson, reserves outplay our starters.

re: balls, i meant starting unit.

as for reserves i'd add rush to the category of ballicious camp - his two blocks (wrongly called as fouls) were nasty. and his dunk also.

i see potential in harrison barnes, he need to keep driving and be aggressive, if he'd made that reverse driving dunk it would've been the highlight of the night.

as i told you, i have huge reservations about lee in current starting unit - for it to thrive he must forget being a man and do the passing thing. there's just too much ball stopping during the game. not only lee's fault, mind you. it looks a bit lost out there. our offense. just like last season. and we supposedly have better personel. coaching perhaps?

i know we haven't won in phoenix for years, so it's good to get that. but phoenix isn't a household name. their big three (gortat, dragic, scola) are largely average, well, besides scola, maybe.

so, i'm not sure i have seen enough to make strict conclusions about what i saw yesterday and how it will transpire into next game. grizzlies should be a good test. they are big and gritty and nasty.

Disliking Lee on isolations after he put up 2 makes on 16 attempts isn't an argument I'm going to open up, but I'll simply say that I disagree. In my opinion, Lee is among the best PF's at scoring the ball and the fact that he can put the ball on the floor, pass out of multiple coverage, and knock down jumpers out to 18 feet are what I base that on. I agree that he's extremely effective on a pick-and-roll or a pick-and-pop, but I believe in his ability to score in isolated coverage.

I agree with you in that Lee can appear "Monta-like" in isolation, but seeing as Monta was our best option for the past 4 years in terms of iso's, I don't necessarily see what's wrong with that.

Your original post on this page said you saw "two bad offenses" last night. We'll see tomorrow how poor the Warriors offense looks at home, but I'm going to go ahead and proclaim ahead of time: we disagree as far as their label of good or bad. I think the Warriors had a bad game; doesn't make them a bad offense. And they still won.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:52 am
what was wrong with monta's isos? stalled offense. everyone waiting around. no flow.
i don't want that on the regular basis, also i don't want a guy who clearly is bad on that day to take so many shots. you said lee is a good passer. why not more of this then? fascilitate.
largely, i believe this team could be very good on offense. i haven't seen anything yet to be positive that this is happening. i don't blame lee. i blame jackson. and lee is not a post-up player in half court sets. and curry is struggling in the same sets. why on hell we don't open the court? because it's gimmicky nelson basketball? is it some new mantra we have to follow. i want them to mix it up, and i think they can do it. lee is good running the floor.let him do that.
playing like yesterday against memphis would mean playing into the teeth of their defense.
i hope for adjustments from coach jackson. and let's say one thing - if curry and lee shoots 60 percent over the good set defense it won't be a sign of great offense, but sheer luck.
i don't want to bet on luck. i want sure things.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:05 pm
You raise some good points.

But I disagree that a 60% game from Lee would be a fluke. He cranked out 12 of them just last year. The last time Lee shot less than 20% was March 6th of 2007, when he took an 0-for-4 as a Knick. In Golden State, Lee has ended a game below 30% only 3 times and had never shot below 28% until last night. Which one would you say was more attributed to luck?

I agree he was forcing bad shots, but with Curry and Thompson cold, Bogut on a minute-count, and Lee making more money than anyone else on the roster, it's not outside of his personality to believe it was up to him to shoot the Warriors back into the game. He's not going to shoot 12% again this year. That is a fact I'd bet my car on.

Lee doesn't have Ellis' lack of teammate support, so the stagnant offense you mention is a team issue, not simply on Lee. I'll guarantee you that he's in the gym shooting as we speak and Memphis will be the sorry souls that find out that Lee doesn't have 2 bad shooting nights in a row. He's a career 50%. Give him a break. I prefer he gets his bad nights out of the way during winning games anyway. It's not like he lost us a game; the Warriors won ugly. If nothing else, that's something they couldn't do for years. I'm excited to see Golden State take a game with both teams under 90 points.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:42 pm
32 wrote:You raise some good points.

But I disagree that a 60% game from Lee would be a fluke. He cranked out 12 of them just last year. The last time Lee shot less than 20% was March 6th of 2007, when he took an 0-for-4 as a Knick. In Golden State, Lee has ended a game below 30% only 3 times and had never shot below 28% until last night. Which one would you say was more attributed to luck?

I agree he was forcing bad shots, but with Curry and Thompson cold, Bogut on a minute-count, and Lee making more money than anyone else on the roster, it's not outside of his personality to believe it was up to him to shoot the Warriors back into the game. He's not going to shoot 12% again this year. That is a fact I'd bet my car on.

Lee doesn't have Ellis' lack of teammate support, so the stagnant offense you mention is a team issue, not simply on Lee. I'll guarantee you that he's in the gym shooting as we speak and Memphis will be the sorry souls that find out that Lee doesn't have 2 bad shooting nights in a row. He's a career 50%. Give him a break. I prefer he gets his bad nights out of the way during winning games anyway. It's not like he lost us a game; the Warriors won ugly. If nothing else, that's something they couldn't do for years. I'm excited to see Golden State take a game with both teams under 90 points.


But that is the point I tried to stretch across my posts, team issue. I'm not denying Lee's talent, but he's not a man on a good team. He can't be one. So he should not be playing like one. To me the best offense is with tons of ball movement if you have no player on your team that has to be double teamed on defense. The warriors are pretty much that team, nice players, none of them all-star level in the sense that they could do a lot of damage just on their own. One on one should be done with.
Yes, Lee was putting great numbers on shitty teams for his whole career. Now we must see if he can play efficiently on a better team with putting lesser numbers and that, if we will play half-court, is improving his defense. For with bogut, landry, ezeli, he won't be doing that sexy 20 - 10 thing anymore.
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