Game Thread: Warriors @ New Orleans Hornets 2013-01-19

Talk about the upcoming Warriors game here

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:05 pm
32 wrote:... Like when he's shooting 7-for-20 against the Spurs...

If he had "Ellis" on the back of his jersey, you wouldn't hear nearly as many excuses for his overshooting. I like Thompson, don't get it twisted, and I think 8th does too. But we're not gonna smile and ignore his poor shooting when he refuses to quit launching. Theres a huge difference between a sharp-shooter and a volume-shooter. Klay needs to do more to be seen as the former. You can't always reign in buckets, like the New Orleans game. Part of being an outside threat is recognizing when you're off and using your tight outside coverage to drive and/or kick. If teams realize you're chucking up misses, they'll keep inviting you to shoot. You gotta make em pay in other ways.



Sample size, 32, and considering he played a lot of minutes with an offensive line up of Jack, Green, Biedrens, and Lee it is pretty understandable . And yes there are other bad games, just like there are good games. But that's to be expected for basically every player.
Last edited by Blackfoot on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:10 pm
8th ave wrote:
Blackfoot wrote:
Guybrush wrote:
rockyBeli wrote:Klay plays up and down....but that happens when it's only your 2nd season. But holy shi* can we stand by a freakin player instead of knee-jerk reacting to every few games? Insane the amount of hyper-reactivy I see from Warrior fans -- more so on other forums though.

Why is it a knee jerk reaction saying that he takes a lot of bad shots? He obviously does that, and we are fortunate that he hits them. I would feel stupid saying that is great, and when his shots start to bounce of the rim, curse him for missing. We just call things as we see them, no need to be quiet until it goes bad, but rather call it upfront so that it could be changed.

Good win for us. It's obvious now how much more Curry is important to this team than Lee.



His shot selection is pretty okay, http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player ... 3;season=r

Most of shots are either threes (high percentage for him), in the paint, or a designed play to get him a wide open midrange.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 50% percent in the restricted area WILDLY low? He's pretty terrible inside the paint, no? Also, just because the play is called for him doesn't mean he have to shoot it. He does well dumping it down low when his defender can't come off the screen and the big man comes out, but I'm disappointed in his ability to put the ball on the floor, passing, and shot selection in general. He's made LOTS of bad shot selections. Some of those even costed us games. I can appreciate Jackson giving him the green light so that he can gain his confidence, but sometimes enough is enough and you have to reign a guy in.


Lol, if the coach designs a play specifically for you to a wide open jumper, and than don't shoot the wide open jumper you are going to be in trouble with the coach. Popovich benches players for not taking wide open shots.

There is no evidence to suggest he has super poor shot selection, especially when he stays in the role the coach gives him.

His true shooting percentage is 540. A lot of unnecessary criticisms for Klay Thompson, especially since most of it is untrue.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:24 pm
Blackfoot wrote:
32 wrote:... Like when he's shooting 7-for-20 against the Spurs...

If he had "Ellis" on the back of his jersey, you wouldn't hear nearly as many excuses for his overshooting. I like Thompson, don't get it twisted, and I think 8th does too. But we're not gonna smile and ignore his poor shooting when he refuses to quit launching. Theres a huge difference between a sharp-shooter and a volume-shooter. Klay needs to do more to be seen as the former. You can't always reign in buckets, like the New Orleans game. Part of being an outside threat is recognizing when you're off and using your tight outside coverage to drive and/or kick. If teams realize you're chucking up misses, they'll keep inviting you to shoot. You gotta make em pay in other ways.



Sample size, 32, and considering he played a lot of minutes with an offensive line up of Jack, Green, Biedrens, and Lee it is pretty understandable . And yes there are other bad games, just like there are good games. But that's to be expected for basically every player.

The sample size is the whole point, though.

I'm not arguing for a deeper meaning here; I don't think Klay Thompson needs to be traded or isn't an offensive asset or should be benched or any of that. I'm simply saying, on a game by game basis, Klay hasn't proven that he's more than a one-dimensional player yet. When his shot isn't falling, and it's not going to be locked in every night, he needs to find a way to contribute in other ways if we are considering him one of our foundational pieces. Thompson doesn't ratchet up the defense or distribute for others or crash the boards when he isn't shooting well; he becomes dead weight. On a game like Saturday's, nobody cares cause he's on fire and dropping buckets. But the 3 games prior were all losses and Thompson was hoisting 31.8% on 14.7 attempts throughout that stretch. Ok, sure, it was an off-stretch. Shooters can slump. But the rest of his game comprised of 3.7 rebounds, 3.0 assists, and 3.7 turnovers in 35.5 minutes per. That's a lotta tick to be giving a guy whose only out there to launch jumpers from the low-percentile spots.

All I'm saying is that Klay needs to learn how to recognize when it's not his night and at least attempt to defer, if not contribute in other ways. I understand a night of chucking; everyone's allowed that. But 3 games in a row, with those kind of secondary numbers? That's indefensible, BF. Even Monta supplied 5 assists and 4 rebounds with those kind of minutes. You can't blame me and 8th for getting impatient with him.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:28 pm
32 wrote:
Blackfoot wrote:
32 wrote:... Like when he's shooting 7-for-20 against the Spurs...

If he had "Ellis" on the back of his jersey, you wouldn't hear nearly as many excuses for his overshooting. I like Thompson, don't get it twisted, and I think 8th does too. But we're not gonna smile and ignore his poor shooting when he refuses to quit launching. Theres a huge difference between a sharp-shooter and a volume-shooter. Klay needs to do more to be seen as the former. You can't always reign in buckets, like the New Orleans game. Part of being an outside threat is recognizing when you're off and using your tight outside coverage to drive and/or kick. If teams realize you're chucking up misses, they'll keep inviting you to shoot. You gotta make em pay in other ways.



Sample size, 32, and considering he played a lot of minutes with an offensive line up of Jack, Green, Biedrens, and Lee it is pretty understandable . And yes there are other bad games, just like there are good games. But that's to be expected for basically every player.

The sample size is the whole point, though.

I'm not arguing for a deeper meaning here; I don't think Klay Thompson needs to be traded or isn't an offensive asset or should be benched or any of that. I'm simply saying, on a game by game basis, Klay hasn't proven that he's more than a one-dimensional player yet. When his shot isn't falling, and it's not going to be locked in every night, he needs to find a way to contribute in other ways if we are considering him one of our foundational pieces. Thompson doesn't ratchet up the defense or distribute for others or crash the boards when he isn't shooting well; he becomes dead weight. On a game like Saturday's, nobody cares cause he's on fire and dropping buckets. But the 3 games prior were all losses and Thompson was hoisting 31.8% on 14.7 attempts throughout that stretch. Ok, sure, it was an off-stretch. Shooters can slump. But the rest of his game comprised of 3.7 rebounds, 3.0 assists, and 3.7 turnovers in 35.5 minutes per. That's a lotta tick to be giving a guy whose only out there to launch jumpers from the low-percentile spots.

All I'm saying is that Klay needs to learn how to recognize when it's not his night and at least attempt to defer, if not contribute in other ways. I understand a night of chucking; everyone's allowed that. But 3 games in a row, with those kind of secondary numbers? That's indefensible, BF. Even Monta supplied 5 assists and 4 rebounds with those kind of minutes. You can't blame me and 8th for getting impatient with him.


Klay is definitely a good reason we are 9th in defensive efficiency. He has good size for his position and hardly gets beat. When he is playing shooting guard his defensive efficiency is 97, and when he is SF his defensive rating is 101.

His opponents PER against him is like 12 as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:37 am
Man, you can throw in all the fancy stats you want. I've watched all the games and I know what I see.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:38 am
And those shots aren't always open. I have to be somewhere, I'll probably give a more detailed response later.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:11 pm
8th ave wrote:Man, you can throw in all the fancy stats you want. I've watched all the games and I know what I see.



Well, we are a good defensive team this year with a closing line up of Curry, Jack, Klay, Landry, Lee. These guys put up good defensive numbers. You don't think Klay has something to do with this? I have seen him get beat a couple times and a guy gets a lay up, I can feel that, but he usually forces a tough shot or prevents his guy at getting to the rim. We are second in the league at preventing guys at getting to the rim. That means our front court is doing a very good job defensively and it is showing on their individual stats as well as our team stats, which are hard to disprove because they are based on what happen, not on what we feel.

Point being, is it Lee, Landry, Curry, or Jack just making us ****ing awesome at defense? Klay is the dead weight of that line up? No. It's not.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:31 pm
Klay's been somewhat inconsistent, sure. But for every miss I could think of plenty of clutch shots that he made. But it's not like he's taking heavily contested fade away 3's every possession. Overall he takes pretty good shots. Sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't.

Say what you want about Klay Thompson. But when you start comparing him to selfish Monta or calling him 1-dimensional, that's just lunacy. He plays D, he has intangibles, he sets his teammates up. The dude makes so many positive (yet sometimes subtle) fundamental basketball plays that has been a big part of their success this year. Dude's way undervalued among warrior fans.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:41 pm
Nobody is saying he is bad, some of us just believe he is not as good as you (or him apparently) think he is. You tend to put Ellis down almost as much as you lift Klay up. Well, in reality, they are not that far apart. One has his advantages, and the other his, but all in all, it's not that big of a difference.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:52 pm
Guybrush wrote:Nobody is saying he is bad, some of us just believe he is not as good as you (or him apparently) think he is. You tend to put Ellis down almost as much as you lift Klay up. Well, in reality, they are not that far apart. One has his advantages, and the other his, but all in all, it's not that big of a difference.



Statistically they are that far apart.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:53 pm
I love stats, but I don't put that much trust in them...especially those unofficial.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:00 pm
Guybrush wrote:You tend to put Ellis down almost as much as you lift Klay up.


True!! lol

Well, in reality, they are not that far apart. One has his advantages, and the other his, but all in all, it's not that big of a difference.


Totally disagree. How they're different....

KLAY

- Good size for his position
- Defends
- Looks for his teammates
- Bball iq
- Team player

MONTA

- Undersized
- Probably one of the worst defenders in the entire league (due to size disadvantage / bad instincts / bad effort)
- Ballhogs
- Poor bball iq
- Selfish


Those things make a difference to his teammates and to team chemistry and to WINNING basketball.

KT's real value will show when Bogut comes back and he'll get more open looks.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:15 pm
Guybrush wrote:I love stats, but I don't put that much trust in them...especially those unofficial.


The "unofficial" ones are more accurate. The only reason traditional stats are still used on sites like espn or nba is because they are universal and everyone understands them. That doesn't make them better.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:21 pm
Those who don't understand them, won't read too much into it to begin with.

I just don't think that defensive stats are good, a lots of times people change their player after blocks and screens, and I'm not too confident that someone actually takes notice of all that happens on the court. Especially when NBA didn't pay someone to do that.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:33 pm
Guybrush wrote:Those who don't understand them, won't read too much into it to begin with.

I just don't think that defensive stats are good, a lots of times people change their player after blocks and screens, and I'm not too confident that someone actually takes notice of all that happens on the court. Especially when NBA didn't pay someone to do that.



Synergy costs money to use and is very legitimate, and it's not like they have to watch every play and record everything, it's very easy to get the information. And I will give you defensive metrics for individual players maybe more inaccurate than other efficiency stats, but they are not inaccurate for team defenses/systems. Warriors are top nine in defense, you either think Klay is part of that or not helping, but the stats say he is contributing to that. Take that for what you will.
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